SARAH FERGUSON, HOST: The Federal Government released its long awaited National Artificial Intelligence Plan today. Rather than introduce new legislation to regulate the evolving technology, it's decided AI can be managed through existing laws. The plan focuses on how the Australian economy can benefit from artificial intelligence and increase the presence of data centres here. The Government has also pledged nearly $30 million to establish an AI Safety Institute next year.

Tim Ayres is the Minister for Industry and Innovation and you're welcome to the studio.

 

SENATOR TIM AYRES, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND INNOVATION AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE: G', day, Sarah. It's good to be in here.

 

HOST: Was AI used to write this plan?

 

AYRES: No, it was not. It's a technology that's been adopted by Australians every day in the workplace, using it at home to do all sorts of things.

 

HOST: But you didn't think reliable enough for this report?

 

AYRES: No, well, I think that people want to see government reports, government plans authored by human beings who take responsibility for the big political decisions and big policy approach that we've taken here.

 

HOST: Do you anticipate that that will change though? That you will start seeing things like this, major pieces of work – at least there'll be a contribution from AI very soon?

 

AYRES: We're starting to see Australians using artificial intelligence to do writing tasks, sometimes to write something at the beginning and then throw it into artificial intelligence to structure. But it's really important that Australians are sceptical consumers of this technology, that you're fact checking yourself, that you of course experiment with the technology, play with it, use it to assist you in your work, but take responsibility for what it is that you've authored.

 

HOST: Now, you actually said in a speech that you gave today, “AI comes with new risks and potential for undesired consequences”. Be specific. What do you see as the biggest?

 

AYRES: Well, we've seen artificial intelligence enabling, in the social media landscape, deepfake pornography that’s absolutely corrosive for Australians to see those kinds of images, whether they're consuming them or in fact their consent's been ripped away. The government's moved fast on those questions. Anika Wells leading our response there with the eSafety Commissioner –

 

HOST: Can government actually do anything to stop platforms accelerating bad viral content?

 

AYRES: Well, our laws apply now. Australian law, whether it's in communications law or in a criminal law context or indeed in the areas of financial scams that might be enabled by artificial intelligence technology; our legal frameworks apply now. We're going to continue to use this Artificial Intelligence Safety Institute, which will start next year, to make sure that we're scanning the horizon, identifying those risks and, where we need to, to improve regulation, lift capability and make sure that we're dealing with risks to keep Australians safe.

 

HOST: You've landed at an interesting point because previously you were looking at a new AI Act, at much tougher guardrails around how AI companies should operate in Australia. What persuaded you that it was safe enough for Australians to do without that European style control?

 

AYRES: I think this is the safest option for Australia. An Artificial Intelligence Safety Institute –

 

HOST: The government didn’t used to think that.

 

AYRES: Yeah, but we've worked our way through a process. This technology is evolving. We're watching the responses of governments around the world. The Artificial Intelligence Safety Institute is an important part of the process, which is about lifting government capability and making sure that we're keeping Australians safe, while we're focused on capturing the economic opportunity here and spreading the benefits. Not just here, where we are in Sydney’s CBD, but making sure Australians in our suburbs, in our regional areas are experiencing the benefits of this technology.

 

HOST: It puts a lot of onus on that Institute. Will it have actual powers, or just be advisory?

 

AYRES: Well, we've got it set up. It'll start operating in early 2026. We'll build that capability carefully. You know, we will be watching this very closely.

 

HOST: That wasn’t quite an answer to the question. Do you anticipate that that Institute will just advise, or will it have actual powers to act?

 

AYRES: Well, right now it's going to advise and it's the responsibility of the portfolio agencies and the regulators to act. That's one of the key features of our approach that we've announced today. We're not doubling up or creating any ambiguity about the responsibility of agencies to act. Where they need more powers, they'll get them from this government.

We're focused as well on the economic opportunity. I look at my area of science, for example. The capacity for us to enable research and development in areas like pharmaceuticals, drug design, cancer diagnosis and treatment, all sorts of areas of technology, composite material design that we can do fast, in Australia’s interest, solving national problems. So, yes, keeping Australians safe, absolutely crucial, but also making sure Australia captures this opportunity.

 

HOST: Let's talk about the big question around energy. The enormous amount of energy that data centres require. Do you know, in fact, how much energy will be required for the number of data centres that you hope to see built in Australia?

 

AYRES: We're going to require more electricity for our ambitions in terms of digital infrastructure. We're going to require more electricity for our industrial ambitions in Future Made in Australia. And both of those are going to require addition as well as transition in the energy system.

 

HOST: And in relation to the data centres do you have a figure yet for how extra electricity much you're going to expect from the grid?

 

AYRES: That will depend upon the scale of the investment as it comes in. And what we're seeing is high quality investments come with their own energy solutions. That means a net addition to the grid's generation capacity, transmission capacity and overall stability. That's what we want to see; high quality investments in Australia. We'll have more to say jointly with the states and territories about our data centre principles, but as you can imagine, it will go to energy security questions and some of the water security that revolve around data centres.

 

HOST: Will you be expecting major companies who invest in data centres in Australia to also pay for their own, for the generation of their own energy that they will use?

 

AYRES: That's exactly the kind of principle that we want to advance with the states. And look today –

 

HOST: Is that, just to be clear, going to be part of the plan that those big companies like Microsoft, Amazon – they will be required to supply their own energy?

 

AYRES: That's absolutely part of the discussion. You see Microsoft's investment in Australia today underpinning an enormous solar energy generation capacity north of Albury. A real project, the Walla Walla project, underpinned, paid for to a large extent by Microsoft's data centre investments. That's the kind of quality investment that lifts the capability of the whole grid and means that we're driving more investment, making electricity cheaper for ordinary Australians.

 

HOST: Do you expect a problem in the short term, though? Because you want data centres to be built. We know that there's going to be pressure on the grid before all of that new energy comes online. Are these data centres are going to cause problems to the renewables rollout and the availability of energy to Australians?

 

AYRES: Well, it requires careful planning and ambition for the electricity sector. We are coming off the back of a decade where nothing happened in the electricity sector. Generation capability left, there was disinvestment in the sector. We're rapidly, led by Chris Bowen, rebuilding a modern electricity capability for Australia. We want to see these things happen in parallel in a carefully planned way. We want to see it in the manufacturing sector that I've got responsibility for, too. More electrification means lowering Australia's emissions. More investment in Australian manufacturing in the outer suburbs and the regions means more electricity generation. All of this comes together.

 

HOST: Let me just ask you a question about copyright. We've had some discussions about copyright on this program. So, the government has rejected the broad exemptions to copyright that the tech industry wanted from Australia. What protections can we expect to see for journalists and creatives in Australia?

 

AYRES: Well, an absolutely clear commitment from this government; there'll be no weakening of copyright law or copyright protections. Journalists, writers, musicians, they are so important to the way that Australia sees itself, you know, for constructing a resilient national culture. We won't be undermining copyright protections. We will be working, led by the Attorney-General and the Minister for the Arts, working with the creative community to see where there are improvements that we can make. You know, our unique copyright system has collection agencies and all sorts of features. Want to see them work in this new environment for artists.

 

HOST: That’ll be some comfort to the creatives of Australia. Tim Ayres, thank you very much indeed for coming in today.

 

AYRES: Thank you very much.

 

ENDS.